...and still no respect.
After defeating yet another Big Shaq/Fast Little Guy superstar combo, the Detroit Pistons are on their way to a well-deserved second-straight NBA Finals! WOO!
The Pistons have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are one of the greatest teams ever to play the game. And yet, they still get no respect from the NBA, the analyists, nor the media.
The headline on ESPN's story right now is "Wade Held Scoreless During Fourth Quarter." They focus on the losing team's "super"star rather than the amazing play of Detroit's 5 stars. The headline could have been something like "The Defenders Return to the Finals." It could be "Wallace and Hamilton Each Add 20 As Pistons Advance." But, no. Again, the coverage would have us think that the Heat lost this series -- the Pistons didn't win.
Bullshit. These guys play basketball the way it was meant to be played. Last year they battled through three tough, tough series (including coming back from a 3-1 deficit), and then handily beat Shaq, Kobe, and the star-studded Lakers in just 5 games in one of the most amazing sports dramas of all time. The hardworking men from Detroit took the bickering stars in LA and mopped the floor with them. Ironic. Unexpected. Thrilling. Awesome.
Still, to this day, the Pistons are called "fluke champions." The Lakers lost, see -- it's not that the Pistons devastated them. F that. Tonight's win against Miami has again proven that these Pistons are real, no matter what happens against the Spurs.
As these defending champs go into their second straight Finals, they are once again the underdogs and most everyone has already counted them out against the rolling Spurs. For example, I just watched this douchebag on ESPN go through the Spurs-Pistons matchup. His expert analysis went like this:
Backcourt -- Advantage: Pistons (with Billups and Hamilton)
Frontcourt -- Advantage: Pistons (with Prince, Wallace, and Wallace, even Duncan isn't enough)
Bench -- Advantage: Spurs (OK, I'll give them this one)
Coaching -- Advantage: Pistons.
So, with 3 of 4 team aspects in the Pistons' favor, this guy clearly was set to predict another Detroit championship, right?
Wrong. "No, I'm going with the best player in the series, Tim Duncan, and I'm calling it for the Spurs!"
Idiot. Like most commentators, this guy hasn't relized that the Pistons are a paradigm shift. Superstars are clearly overrated. The Pistons' team style of basketball is enough to nullify TWO superstars -- even when one of them is Shaq. They will have no trouble taking care of Duncan. They're the better team, and that's what wins basketball games.
Pistons in five.
Word
again, i'm confused on your argument. if your argument is that the pistons don't get any respect, that argument is largely unfounded. several prominent sports writers picked the pistons to repeat this season even before the season started. even more writers picked the pistons to win at least the eastern conference at the start of the playoffs, including ESPN.com's main basketball writer marc stein. now the douchebag who broke it down like you say on tv is full of crap, but i can't think of anyone who didn't think that detroit wasn't going to win this series, including myself, the biggest pistons hater of them all.
so if you've got your panties in your bunch over people picking the spurs over the pistons, well, then you're just being a crybaby pretending to play the disrespected underdog role, which is fine, pro-athletes do it all the time. the spurs have a better regular season record than the pistons. they also have won in more impressive fashion during these playoffs and they have the single most unstoppable player in the NBA today. tell me erik, why shouldn't the spurs be favored? will the collective will that is powered by the moral goodness of the detroit pistons propel them to victory?
my point is, the pistons seem to me getting just the right amount of respect. until they beat the spurs, you really can't can't talk about disrespect.
lastly, the pistons are far from one of the greatest teams ever to play the game. one championship during an offensive dowturn in the NBA does not make you one of the best teams ever. i can think of at least 15 teams in the past 30 years that are better and everyone, even people from detroit would agree. you see erik, great teams dominate, they don't eke out wins on heart. sure it's a better feel good story, but give me athletic dominance over socially constructed heart any day.
i'll give you 2-1 on the pistons. 50 bucks. you win, i pay you 100 bucks; i win, you pay only 50. let's see you put your money where your mouth is.
I'll start by saying that I'm the biggest Pistons fan to grace this board. Having said that, there is no way that this Pistons team is one of the greatest of all time. In fact, if I compare them to the '89 championship team...
Point guard: Isiah vs. Billups
Advantage: '89 - no contest. Greatest little guard ever.
Shooting guard: Dumars vs. Rip
Advantage: '89 - no contest. Future hall of famer and 5 time all-star. The league named an award after him for a reason.
Center: Laimbeer vs. Big Ben
Advantage: '89 ...barely. Between 1983 and 1987, Laimbeer led the NBA in defensive rebounds, went to three All Star games and averaged nearly 18 points per game. Ben's got no offense.
Small forward: Aguirre vs. Prince
Advantage: '89 ...barely. Prince is the better defender, while Aguirre is clearly the better offensive player.
Power forward: Mahorn vs. Sheed
Advantage: '04 - Easily. Mahorn was an intimidator, but Sheed can do everything. They both got about the same number of techs, so demeanor doesn't factor in.
Bench: '89 - in a walk. No less an authority than Larry Bird said that the '89 Pistons had the best bench ever. Vinnie Johnson, Dennis Rodman, John Salley and James Edwards. Micheal William, the 4th guard who couldn't even get into the rotation, left for Indiana the following year where he became the starting point guard and set the NBA record for consecutive free throws made, averaging 17 points and 8 assists per game. The Pistons three guards were so good that this guy couldn't crack the rotation. Scary...
Coach: Daly vs. Brown
Advantage: Even
Only one player from the '04 team would clearly start for the '89 team. Let's take it one step further...
Guards (pick 3): Isiah Thomas, Joe Dumars, Vinnie Johnson, Chauncey Billups, Rip Hamilton, Micheal Williams, Lindsey Hunter, Carlos Arroyo
Chances are: you took Isiah, Joe and Vinnie, with Rip for Vinnie being the only acceptable substitution.
Forwards (pick six): Mark Aguirre, Rick Mahorn, Dennis Rodman, John Salley, Ben Wallace, Bill Laimbeer, James Edwards, Rasheed Wallace, Tayshaun Prince, Eldon Campbell, Antonio McDyess, Darvin Ham, Darko Milicic
Chances are: You took Laimbeer, Rodman, Rasheed Wallace, Aguirre, Ben Wallace and Edwards with Prince for Edwards being acceptable.
It is unlikely that more than 3 players from last years team would even MAKE the '89 team. That's how ridiculous the league has become. Expansion and early entries have F'ed it all up.
Anyway, last year's team will be legendary because it finished off a Lakers dynasty that was making a last grasp for 4 titles in 5 years. If they can repeat, it will be quite an accomplishment.
But, the '89 team was legitimately one of the 10 best teams of all time - the team that beat the Celtics, Lakers and Bulls all in the same championship drive.
In fact...
'04 Pistons vs. '90 Blazers
Chauncey Billups vs. Terry Porter
Rip Hamilton vs. Clyde Drexler
Ben Wallace vs. Kevin Duckworth
Rasheed Wallace vs. Buck Williams
Tayshaun Prince vs. Jerome Kersey
Factor in that the Blazers were bringing Cliff Robinson and Drazen Petrovic in off the bench. The '04 Pistons would have been SWEPT by the team that the '90 Pistons beat in the Finals in just 5 GAMES!!
Then again, so would the '05 Spurs. This series is too close to call, but I'll take Detroit in 6 because they have enough good big men to counter Duncan on the interior. If the Pistons take game one, look for them to take three of the next four and win it all in five.
Erik, you've got to get some context for your statements before you go throwing around words like "greatest."
Hell, any championship team from the last six years would have been stomped by the '89 CAVS. Price, Nance, Ehlo, Harper and Daugherty all in their primes ='s ass kickings all around.
Ian
OK, just a quick response here, now that the Pistons have dramatically evened the 2005 NBA Finals at 2 games apiece.
Ian and Bob, I'll remind you that I said "one of" the greatest teams ever, and I think you could make a legitimate argument that any team to win an NBA championship deserves that description. Even if you don't buy that weak argument, check this shit out.
Nice run down of individual players, Ian, but this team -- the 04 Pistons and 05 Pistons starting 5 -- are more than the sum of their parts. When they play team defense, they are nearly unstoppable, and I'd put them up against any of the great teams of all time and I think they'd do extremely well. They might even win a 7-game series. Look what they're doing to Duncan. Look what they did to Shaq. And Kobe. And Wade, Ginobli, Iverson... Individuals cannot beat this team. The Spurs are the 2nd best at team play in the league, and they're obviously having some trouble.
So, synergy. That's a huge reason why it's clear that the 04 and 05 Pistons are one of the best NBA teams, ever. And that's why they're going to win in 6 and why Bob will owe me a shitload of cash.
Oh, and the Pistons still aren't getting any respect, as most coverage I've seen has talked about the Spurs' failure to score rather than the fact that SEVEN Pistons had 10 points or more in game 4. And they only committed 4 turnovers in the entire game -- an NBA Finals record. What more do you want? These guys are more than the sum of their parts. They're one of the best TEAMS ever.